beating hillary clinton, coming out of nowhere, defeating john mccain. there were very few mistakes common about bitter and guns and religion in pennsylvania was certainly one mistake. he didn't make very many mistakes that whole time. >> john, putting bad campaigners aside for a minute, let's talk about reluctant campaigners. i think the skill set to be a good campaigner and the skill set to be a good leader might be in direct opposition to someone. if someone is a reluctant salesman, humble and reluctant to take the spotlight, that might make him a good leader. george washington had to be convinced to take the job the first time, was reluctant to take it the second and refused the third and had to be convinced to take a salary. obviously, he was one of our better presidents. >> he was maybe greatest by some standards. that was a different era. he couldn't look ambitious because of fears of being a king and all like that. i suspect reluctant campaigners who have been good leaders. maybe someone like dwight eisenhower. i don't think he relished campaigni